tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5536011140055575088.post8011000841133541220..comments2024-02-15T00:57:03.420-08:00Comments on - Privilege: Parental Worries About Children Making A Living, Or, Saturday Morning at 10:59amLPChttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18209861350905135093noreply@blogger.comBlogger86125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5536011140055575088.post-6420314762250487242010-05-21T12:32:48.659-07:002010-05-21T12:32:48.659-07:00Yes. I got this far behind. Shhh. I turned 30 and ...Yes. I got this far behind. Shhh. I turned 30 and went to New York and my husband graduated from law school and I've been working all the time. AHH! But you knew that. <br /><br />Anyway.<br /><br />Sounds like you have this mostly figured by now, and I only read some of the 83 comments before me (including my dad's). But another voice never hurts, right? And I'm probably saying something slightly different than everyone else.<br /><br />Mostly, he needs to be interesting and level headed. I did my share of intern-and-the-like hiring, and probably will again, and I always hired people that 1) were interesting 2) had something to talk about 3) were passionate about things 4) Could use excel and write well. So, basically that's my list of what a well trained liberal arts person should be able to do.<br /><br />What do they need to LEARN to do? I'm glad you asked. They need to learn to: pay the bills without help, be totally totally broke (they won't stay that way), use public transportation in any city in the world on a moments notice, network with a drink in their hands (at dive bars, art galleries, "art galleries," friends parties). Live with someone they found on Craig's List. Select a suitable Craig's List roommate via interview. Temp. Maybe wait tables (though that was never my gig).<br /><br />What can you help with? Excellent question because there are tangible things: Health care. You shouldn't help them with regular bills, but if you can keep them insured, that's key. Occasional trips homes. New jeans sometimes, because when you are broke jeans are expensive. Work clothes, because if you can't afford work clothes it's hard to get a job. Occasional three figure checks when they threaten to give up and move home. Nice meals when you're in town. Long phone calls. Faith.<br /><br />He'll figure it out. It will probably be really painful, but it will also probably be really fun. The fun will win in the end. Oh, and I can't imagine your son isn't going to do anything other than adventurously fabulously well.<br /><br />PS The Princeton degree is his safety net. Trust me. Where my degree didn't hold water (which it normally did), I just used all my endless Stanford friends degrees as my safety net. Like, look, I'm with them, and I am as bright as any one of them, I've got what it takes (I'm resourceful like that, using other people's degrees as my safety net).Meghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09526722516550185150noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5536011140055575088.post-49251384808703560382010-04-20T15:35:52.841-07:002010-04-20T15:35:52.841-07:00Coming late to the party, but as a 25 year old app...Coming late to the party, but as a 25 year old applying to graduate school for this fall, the subject has been on my mind a lot lately. :)<br /><br />I graduated from a completely unknown, wildly liberal college with the made-up major of "Psychology of Society and Culture" and got a relatively well paying job 2 weeks after I started looking, which I continued in and enjoyed for the past two years. My husband went to nursing school because it was the practical decision, couldn't find a job for about nine months after graduating, and is currently unemployed.<br /><br />My friends are in similar positions. Weirdly, the only person I know who got a job specifically because of her major was an English major. The thing I have come to believe about the current job market is that the jobs are out there. You only need one job. But to be the applicant accepted, it has to be the PERFECT job for you, the one you are uniquely qualified for through education, work history, and hobbies. You can't plan for that.<br /><br />I also highly disagree that grad school is necessary. My agency runs several afterschool activity programs, and every time they post an ad for an instructor they receive applicants with MAs, MFAs, PhDs, MEds. We're talking part time minimum wage jobs, here. Grad school doesn't guerrantee anything, and the costs are wildly disproportionate to what most graduates can expect to earn right out of school.<br /><br />It's kind of comforting, in a way: the job market is so screwy, there is no way to be sure of getting a well-paid job, so you might as well do what you love. Well, and network, and work REALLY REALLY hard at everything you do, and jump on every opportunity you see with everything you've got. But you can do that with any major.Marinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12051581432652556410noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5536011140055575088.post-8332115068405507812010-04-16T13:32:30.728-07:002010-04-16T13:32:30.728-07:00Easy and Elegant - ballroom dancing to copywriting...Easy and Elegant - ballroom dancing to copywriting. We know, you're really Don Draper, right? Thanks for the kind words.<br /><br />Joyce - Well then. Your story convinces me. Clearly, if it wasn't clear before, I have nothing to worry about.LPChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18209861350905135093noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5536011140055575088.post-1201156228992892962010-04-15T07:24:52.395-07:002010-04-15T07:24:52.395-07:00Your son will only have one chance in his life to ...Your son will only have one chance in his life to be in his early 20s and to spend all day reading / studying / thinking about whatever the heck he wants to.<br /><br />He will probably have 30 more years, later on, to worry about jobs, promotions and working his way up the career ladder.<br /><br />My parents, too, were worried about my studying something as useless as English lit. (Even I admit it's pretty useless, career-wise). They even told our Hong Kong relatives I was in "pre-law." Since, some Lit majors eventually study law, right?<br /><br />They just bragged, again, to my husband that, 15 years ago, I got into law school. <br /><br />The roller coaster didn't stop for them when I launched my career as a "freelance magazine journalist" in Canada, supplemented by scraping together child-care, tutoring and admin work. <br /><br />It was only a few years ago, after I landed steady staff work at a major paper in my late 20s, that they finally stopped worrying. <br /><br />My parents have always been supportive, and I get where the worry comes from. <br /><br />The Laus never had a family fortune to lose. While we managed to scamper into the middle class when I was in my teens, our roots are immigrant and working class. The idea that I wouldn't be able to support myself was scary. <br /><br />But I still think they never should have worried, and neither should you. If your son is smart and educated, he'll be fine.Joyce Lauhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18078504968737757085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5536011140055575088.post-71940016563057005922010-04-14T12:52:35.547-07:002010-04-14T12:52:35.547-07:00Let's see, fresh out of school with a B.A. in ...Let's see, fresh out of school with a B.A. in English Lit. , I cast about and answered an ad for a position with "no experience required." Two years later, I quit teaching ballroom dance and started freelancing as a direct mail fundraiser. Then it was copywriting at ad agencies. Then a stint in retail before building an agency. And in between... oh yes, a brief sojourn to Europe with a soon to be second wife.<br /><br />Not terribly helpful, I'll admit. But it's been interesting anyway. Most new graduates I know go right back to school for the next degree. College graduates seem to be a dime a dozen these days.<br /><br />Wonderful site!Easy and Elegant Lifehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09951907004091808223noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5536011140055575088.post-90727432998925259622010-04-14T08:34:34.702-07:002010-04-14T08:34:34.702-07:00Paula - You are so right. Skills are only a part o...Paula - You are so right. Skills are only a part of it all. Attitude, willingness, to get one's hands dirty, or to put oneself on the line, have as much or more of a role in how we work over time.<br /><br />Belle - Couldn't agree more about writing. And Accounting was the most difficult class I EVER took:). My professor even questioned my intelligence at one point. I did too. Still can't even do my own taxes.<br /><br />Kate - I was thinking of you and some of the other grad students/academics out there and hoping you'd chime in. Thanks. <br /><br />Sher - Politically correct or not, you are very right...LPChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18209861350905135093noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5536011140055575088.post-72478236598089012942010-04-14T08:30:48.759-07:002010-04-14T08:30:48.759-07:00Miss Whistle - Yes, it does help to know that I am...Miss Whistle - Yes, it does help to know that I am not wholly off my rocker:). And I thought very seriously about going to Bard when I was applying to colleges. <br /><br />Mouse - Oh yes, we are big believers in Ph.D.'s in my family. I'm the only one of my siblings without one. I think the life of a professor is a wonderful one, but the life of an aspiring professor can be very nail-biting.<br /><br />Anon - Sounds like you were one of the lucky ones who could choose graduate studies well, early.<br /><br />Fuji - Thank you. I will be reading that essay with care. Good advice.LPChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18209861350905135093noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5536011140055575088.post-88391240594822142352010-04-13T18:34:37.939-07:002010-04-13T18:34:37.939-07:00Get a college degree in something, anything.
Onl...Get a college degree in something, anything. <br />Only after having that paper one still needs connections. It's all about who you know in getting a foot in the door for a job.<br /><br />Connections connections connections!<br /><br />Oh the politically correct word is networking ;DSherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11724466373032206343noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5536011140055575088.post-74599323143216098742010-04-13T00:37:12.844-07:002010-04-13T00:37:12.844-07:00LPC, to add one thing: 3 siblings - one studies ec...LPC, to add one thing: 3 siblings - one studies economics, the second marketing, the third visual arts (at the academy of fine arts). who is making big money? the one who studied what I was interested in: visual arts. needless to say it took years for the parents to accept that the son really is making money and not just an artsy student/academic. the framesets are strong ...Paulahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17842556959891396007noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5536011140055575088.post-53618331081863779892010-04-12T23:51:26.339-07:002010-04-12T23:51:26.339-07:00LPC, I would preface what I say here with, your so...LPC, I would preface what I say here with, your son (as you know) will absolutely find his feet and most probably be wonderful in his career.<br /><br />It's actually been so lovely to read these comments as a twenty-something who has just finished her PhD (in American lit - hello non-vocational degrees!).<br /><br />What I have noticed anecdotally is this: people my age are finding their way, sometimes via very different pathways than they expected. I have management consultant friends who have gone into government, law school friends who have gone back and studied medicine (!!!!), and English majors try their hand at banking. It seems to me that the one constant is that these are smart, determined people who have minds open to new opportunities and are willing to accept that life may look different to how they thought it might. And that this isn't a bad thing.<br /><br />A most excellent post. I don't think I've been very helpful, but I hope I'm in the rallying crowd!Katehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15210665399158259040noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5536011140055575088.post-76385833348123941392010-04-12T19:53:52.386-07:002010-04-12T19:53:52.386-07:00LPC, I've been thinking about your post since ...LPC, I've been thinking about your post since Saturday and just haven't had the time to comment. Of course you've had so many excellent comments that I probably don't need to add mine but here it is.<br /><br />What I've found through my experience is that it really doesn't matter what you major in, especially at a school that is advanced as Princton. But, I would counsel all college students to take a lot of courses that require writing, because writing will be necessary in whatever career they eventually end up in. And in our family we have a motto, "Study Accounting" because it helps in life, no matter what you do, to understand accounting, or be smarter than you accountant as my husband used to say.<br /><br />I've blogged about one of my assisants, Berkeley undergrad and a UCLA law school graduate who can't get a decent legal job. At the same time my son's girlfriend, a Cornell undergrad who also graduated from UCLA law school the same year, is now billing $400 an hour in her family law practice. I've learned that it is less about the state of the economy and more about the decisions of the individual and my assistant was never really passionate about working in law.<br /><br />Also, I came of age in an era when one didn't aspire to government work. Well now that we know that the only growth in the job sector is coming from government jobs, that may be the place to aim.<br /><br />I've always regretted not haveing gone to Georgetown and studying for the Foreign Service. I would have loved to have been in the diplomatic core. If you son works abroad after school, he may find that he wants to continue with a career in the Foreign Service, and if he is fluent in at least one foreign language (preferably Chinese) he will be in demand in our increasingly global economy.<br /><br />Even in this economy I don't think that the outlook is bleak for Ivy League graduates. But I wouldn't want to be graduating from a medium level school with huge student debt right now.Belle de Villehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14045827018848979761noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5536011140055575088.post-27607910623759004652010-04-12T15:02:21.722-07:002010-04-12T15:02:21.722-07:00Dear LPC, your posting reads to me - you know, the...Dear LPC, your posting reads to me - you know, the not-native-speaking-one as if you weren't too sure if your son would be willing to make his hands dirty for a living. <br />The question if there are jobs isn't the question, there always are. But is your son the one who will take a job just for the income if necessary. I remember me standing at the frying-machine at Mc D. at the age of 15 during summer vacation. I earned less than unemployed get from the government. It had 32° C outside and my sneakers well greasy all over. My mother paid me a visit, looked at me and said " from now on I will never worry if you will be able to make your living".<br />Back than I wasn't working for a living, but perfume, fashion and just because I was bored during the long school break. I can tell you - these words are written in stone. They made me feel safe when it comes to jobs and surviving. I managed being unemployed with an excellent academic degree for more than a year. Back then I never doubted. Thanks to my mother. It weren't just words she spoke out loud then. It was an insight she had. And - a relieve I understand better now, reading your posting.Paulahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17842556959891396007noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5536011140055575088.post-14638969548158615022010-04-12T13:35:05.940-07:002010-04-12T13:35:05.940-07:00Hi LPC, I am glad to hear that you have advised hi...Hi LPC, I am glad to hear that you have advised him that Princeton is a probably a once in a life time event, It is. My experience however,has been that out of the eight,in the 'Real'world,Princeton holds a very special place, well above all the others. What I was trying to express in my last comment, which I admit was poorly worded, was that although the Event only happens once, the mental construct of being a Princetonian, lasts a life time and should not be discounted in his journey. <br /><br />Always BumbyBumby Scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11251044681185118330noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5536011140055575088.post-69283715948839152632010-04-12T13:13:02.438-07:002010-04-12T13:13:02.438-07:00Btw, though the Paul Graham essay relates to high ...Btw, though the Paul Graham essay relates to high school, I think the advice could easily be applicable to university.Fujihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09560734423676767219noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5536011140055575088.post-10325413481312160392010-04-12T12:57:19.898-07:002010-04-12T12:57:19.898-07:00There is a very well written essay by Paul Graham....There is a very well written essay by Paul Graham. I offered the advice to my own children and highly recommend it.<br /><br />http://www.paulgraham.com/hs.htmlFujihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09560734423676767219noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5536011140055575088.post-68789735168543285852010-04-12T12:48:12.738-07:002010-04-12T12:48:12.738-07:00While some have suggested that grad school is not ...While some have suggested that grad school is not the appropriate path for someone unsure of what they want to do, I must disagree. I entered a masters program in economics after graduating from a small liberal arts school and a summer of la vie boheme.<br /><br />My senior year of college I had very little idea of what I wanted to pursue as a career, but now, two years later, I have a job lined up which I expect to be both fulfilling and lucrative. For some, grad school can provide the extra direction and time to land on the right career.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5536011140055575088.post-54694922977298139022010-04-12T12:34:43.448-07:002010-04-12T12:34:43.448-07:00My solution was to keep going to school. It's ...My solution was to keep going to school. It's the only place where they still pay you for doing humanities. Not that it's much money. But any good PhD program comes with funding and then, eventually, turns into a real job.<br /><br /><br />Or so I'm told.Mousehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12997875522614810785noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5536011140055575088.post-73791560802517849752010-04-12T11:56:27.943-07:002010-04-12T11:56:27.943-07:00I'm in the same boat with my son, although he&...I'm in the same boat with my son, although he's at Bard, not Princeton. When we were at university, it felt luxurious to be able to study philosophy (in my case), comparative literature (in yours) but now there seems to be a rising, choked panic that if students don't decide on law or medicine or a business degree they will be doomed (there was a piece on this on NPR last week which I can't find now).<br /><br />When I was a business owner, I didn't really care what my interns were majoring in as long as they were smart and had a real work ethic. The worst trait of this generation seems to be a sense of entitlement which is a turn-off to most employers. In fact, it's just downright dull.<br /><br />I hope that my son (and yours) finds what he loves and follows his heart and I hope that, as impractical as it sounds, the adage "If you follow your heart, the money will follow" is true.<br /><br />This probably didn't help at all but I'm glad to find other people worrying about the same things I'm worrying about!<br /><br />-- Bumble (Miss W)Miss Whistlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11103831095827005334noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5536011140055575088.post-52868547671459399572010-04-12T11:53:00.957-07:002010-04-12T11:53:00.957-07:00Worthington - I think some time in Asia is invalua...Worthington - I think some time in Asia is invaluable for most Westerners, new grads to oldies like me:). Good for your brother.<br /><br />Brohammas - I understand completely.<br /><br />Austyn - Oh, he travels. He travels...LPChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18209861350905135093noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5536011140055575088.post-58240292563478581502010-04-12T11:18:17.181-07:002010-04-12T11:18:17.181-07:00Worthington- That sounds like an amazing opportuni...Worthington- That sounds like an amazing opportunity. Young alumni networks can be so useful and are often overlooked.<br /><br />LPC- How does your son spend his summers? Many students find that their internships yielded more connections that school itself, and with a degree from Princeton in the works, he certainly would make an ideal candidate. Surely there are internship opportunities in your neck of the woods, if mother-love precludes summer travel ;o)Austynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12428891088287766221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5536011140055575088.post-10358246310213022422010-04-12T10:53:03.865-07:002010-04-12T10:53:03.865-07:00Let me butt in and offer my two cents. I know not...Let me butt in and offer my two cents. I know nothing of the privilege you speak of but I know something of the post graduate career and its adventures.<br />I transferred out of my 1st major, art (a dsicipline in which I was always talented and am now underskilled), avoided a subject I was passionate about (sociology), and in stead chose to persue a degree that was practical; business/communications.<br />After graduation I took a job with a Fortune 500 and had some level of success, winning trophies and all sorts of things.<br />Then a bubble bursts, stocks tank, and credit shuts off... and Fortune 500's cut staff beginning with the young.<br />There I was qualified and experienced in an industry I despised and inexperienced or unqualified to do the professions I would preffer. So much for being sensible.<br /><br />Moral, let the kid chase what he enjoys. If you like it, you will find a way to make it work.<br /><br />I'm doing fine now. Better than fine in fact, but now I have thrown off being safe ans sensible in favor of all that colorful dream chasing my middle class upbringing tried to beat out of me.brohammashttp://www.brohammas.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5536011140055575088.post-70583870147629013862010-04-12T10:47:15.924-07:002010-04-12T10:47:15.924-07:00My brother graduated from Vanderbilt with a double...My brother graduated from Vanderbilt with a double major in Spanish and Anthropology. He has been living and working in China with a program that is based out of Nashville and takes fresh undergrads (and others) who want a change of scenery, and helps them figure things out while earning money and learning another culture and language. It's pretty amazing and has changed my brother's life. He is now headhunted by private schools in the US to teach Spanish AND Chinese, and has a nice little savings of $ from living in a Communist country where most of their expenses are provided anyway. Pretty neat!WorthyStylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02509683372492114140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5536011140055575088.post-83258276924209557382010-04-12T09:41:18.701-07:002010-04-12T09:41:18.701-07:00Lindy - I agree with you and Anon.
Kate - Thanks ...Lindy - I agree with you and Anon.<br /><br />Kate - Thanks for the reminder that the practical major isn't a guarantee. I think these comments are doing me the immeasurable service of showing me that I want to tell my son to follow his heart, but I just need to have a better understanding of the risks and the safety net in that approach.<br /><br />Tintarosa - Thank you. I will make sure my son knows about this resource. I think I've heard of the place before.<br /><br />Duchesse - It just occurred to me that some people can do just as you recommend and others cannot. If my son majors in what he loves, his grades are apt to be much better than if I twist his arm into something more practical. BTW, Princeton isn't full of majors like accounting etc. And if his grades are better, maybe law school is more possible as a want to make money strategy later.<br /><br />Metscan - I send my best wishes to your daughter and only hope she finds your way out of this. Thank you for reminding me to be thankful. Even more thankful than I am.LPChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18209861350905135093noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5536011140055575088.post-43598520588998182562010-04-12T09:31:19.810-07:002010-04-12T09:31:19.810-07:00Anon - I believe my son should major in what he lo...Anon - I believe my son should major in what he loves, and with a certificate (they don't have minors at Princeton) in something perceived as hard, or technical. So I see the value in your statement, but might advise a slightly different approach.<br /><br />Mater - I am coming away from this with several good mantras. "It's all good..."<br /><br />Glaciercounty - Thanks. I am hearing a lot that grad school or professional school of some sort will be a serious possibility.<br /><br />Austyn - The key piece was that you knew financial security was more important to you, so you made the choice for a practical major of your own volition. And thanks for enjoying my blog. I really appreciate it.<br /><br />Anon - I'm familiar with China and India graduates. They come by their ambition and focus from a very different environment than kids in the US. It's pretty hard as a parent to force choices on US kids that mirror those of India and China. But I agree completely that continuing to bring that perspective to the discussion is important.LPChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18209861350905135093noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5536011140055575088.post-76813632613940519672010-04-12T07:53:59.346-07:002010-04-12T07:53:59.346-07:00You have so many encouraging suggestions already. ...You have so many encouraging suggestions already. Being a mother of two girls, 32,20, I can only say that very much depends on the individual young. Encouraging, when needed, stepping aside, when needed. A healthy young person can find her/his place in our society. My 20 year one is suffering of depression, unable to continue her education, unable to accept help of any kind. Hearing tales like these, make you grateful to have healthy children.mettehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13732534795009852825noreply@blogger.com